Hey,
I think to create a good base and change towards better quality of hospitality exchange networks, the start is to create a good overview and information about the networks. It's good when people can inform themselves about all networks, speak about them freely and also can see what's going on. I tried a few times to create a neutral and informative hospitality exchange networks overview (on dmoz.org is Veit the moderator; on Wikitravl I had discussions with valmid [http://wikitravel.org/en/Talk:Hospitality_exchange]), than I started to create my own and I'm sure most of you have seen it.

But I think this isn't finished yet, to claim to have an 'objective' or 'neutral' list, there should be rules how the pages are rated and which networks are added. Another option would be that more people should give there rating and opinion about the different networks and we create as this a list. Sure, it is not said that it will than be an 'objective' or 'neutral' list, but with naming the people who help working on it, it gives at least some transparency and the people can decide themselves if they see the list (and other stuff) so or not.


Here is my draft for the list.
It should be ordered alphabetically, optimum, in my eyes, would be random.

Please give your opinion and ideas. Thanks.

_alex


############
_Hospitality Exchange Networks

Do you love meeting people from other cultures?
Do you love traveling? Do you love helping other people?
Or you love having a great time? Then this is the place for you to be!

Thousands friendly members from around the world will meet you for a cup of coffee or a beer, have a good time, help you with you travel plans and let you stay for free!

About all the networks:
They all offer free accommodation worldwide and also bring people together from different cultures and social classes, this can build intercultural understanding and reduce prejudices and intolerance.. You are welcome! All networks are worth a visit, thousands of friendly people will welcome you.. you can't decide? Join them all..


http://www.hospitalityclub.org »
_HospitalityClub
Number of Members: *****
Usability & Functions: ****
Host/Guest Profiles: ****

Safety:
~ comments
Special dis-/advantage:
~ spamcheck by volunteers (massage delay / privacy)
~ strong community


http://www.couchsurfing.com »
_CouchSurfing
Number of Members: ***
Usability & Functions: *****
Host/Guest Profiles: *****

Safety:
~ vouched and verified members
~ comments
Special dis-/advantage:
~ fast access to messages
~ mailbox
~ search function on mails
~ possibility to store private notes to members


http://www.servas.org »
_Servas
Number of Members: *****
Usability & Functions: paper based
Host/Guest Profiles: ****

Safety:
~ letter of introduction (travel pass)
~ real interview before joining & travel (each year)
Special dis-/advantage:
~ paper based annual update
~ annual fee for travellers (not hosts), strong community


http://www.globalfreeloaders.com »
_GlobalFreeLoaders
Number of Members: *****
Usability & Functions: ***
Host/Guest Profiles: **

Safety:
~ comments
Special dis-/advantage:
~ massmailing


http://www.travelhoo.com »
_Travelhoo
Number of Members: ***
Usability & Functions: **
Host/Guest Profiles: **

Safety:

Special dis-/advantage:



http://www.Place2Stay.net »
_Place2Stay
Number of Members: ***
Usability & Functions: **
Host/Guest Profiles: **

Safety:

Special dis-/advantage:



http://wwww.stay4free.com »
_Stay4Free
Number of Members: ***
Usability & Functions: **
Host/Guest Profiles: **

Safety:

Special dis-/advantage:
############

---
This posting is available under the CC by-sa 2.5 licence.

I think this section:
» Special dis-/advantage:
should be subdivided in pros and cons (its easier to understand)
thats about it
good work alex!

Hello Adia,

Why not... good idea.

Maybe you can add for Servas that it's a democratic organisation. Representant (Executive Comitee) is elected every 3 years. Every new rules or modification of a rule has to be discussed and voted.

Servas is first a peace organisation which decides to use the travel as a tool to promote better cultural understanding. So, the goal of Servas is to promote peace. (So, even if it's cheaper to travel with Servas, it's not the goal of the organisation).

Servas is not linked to any religious, political or phylosophical movement or organisation.

Servas is the oldest hospitality network (birth year: 1949). And so, the average age is higher than in the other hospitality network.

In general it's difficult to tell how much member Servas has because in Servas, a member = a place... so, at the same place, you can find a single, a couple, a couple with 3 children... So, Servas has 15.000 'open doors' (and not members).

I hope I was able to help you to build a bit more you list.

A stay at your disposal for more info.

Have a nice day.

OlivierSophie.

PS. This is not a promotional mail. I'm happy that different network exists, I'm happy to be part of different hospitality network and everyone is free to join just one or several of them.

» I think this section:
» » Special dis-/advantage:
» should be subdivided in pros and cons (its easier to understand)
» thats about it
» good work alex!

Yes, until now I didn't want to judge if certain points are advantages or disadvantages. Everybody can decide for themselves if it is a advantage or disadvantage. But when more people give their opinion, I will change that..

_alex

---
This posting is available under the CC by-sa 2.5 licence.

Feedback on the list:
i think that under HC should be added:
lack of transparency on how the decision making in the clubs structure functions
and also:
not clear wether it is a "peace-project" or just a service offered by a certain group of people...
i dont know the others but some guests told me that they never recieved any answer on the mails they send via stay4free....
thats it nothing mor to be added from my side
*papaya |berit

Very good work, Alex!

I must say I liked your "dis / advantages" non-judgemental word very much the first time I saw it. That is precisely as the things listed appeared to me. They could potentially be both in different circumstances to different people.

But I also like very much the idea of expanding the description precisely as put by Papaya and Olivier. (Servas sounds really good actually. I think we are going to become members as soon as we find a moment to organise it...). I agree with Papaya that those two points about HC really should be made clear. I wish I knew them before I joined. Also, I wish the New Rules were there before I joined. I suppose I would still have joined, but I wouldn't waste my time on trying to have a reasonable discussion with an absolute monarch... In fact I believe it should be known to all who join that Veit, in his own words, is the only ultimate decision maker. It's not even that there is anything fundamentally wrong with it. After all he owns HC and can do whatever he pleases with it, but he doesn't make it publically obvious and it's something a member should know BEFORE joining.

Another thing - is it ever possible to leave HC? As in having your profile (and your membership) completely removed if you wish to? Oli and I tried to ask the question before, but no one seemed to know...





Feedback on the list:
» i think that under HC should be added:
» lack of transparency on how the decision making in the clubs structure
» functions
» and also:
» not clear wether it is a "peace-project" or just a service offered by a
» certain group of people...
» i dont know the others but some guests told me that they never recieved
» any answer on the mails they send via stay4free....
» thats it nothing mor to be added from my side
» *papaya |berit

As you can read on Wikitravel [http://wikitravel.org/en/Talk:Hospitality_exchange #Sentence_removal_by_80.133..2A
], I tried to get a clear structure into the network description. I think only with a clear structure for all the network descriptions it will be a useful and easy to understand overview for everybody. So we should first start with that, agree on it and than go to ahead to bring all the networks into the same layout and information format. The second step would be to collect facts and than bring them into this standard form/sentence. This can be written on the start and the differences of each network can be pointed extra in the description of the network or added to each network in the same form.

I think best would be to have an overview page, as it already is, and an additional page with more detailed information about the network. There is the same right for every network.

Shall we first start with talking about the structure, or first collect information about the different networks, than start to format it add additional stuff to it?

_alex

---
This posting is available under the CC by-sa 2.5 licence.

I think the list should be updated. Any suggestions?

---
This posting is available under the CC by-sa 2.5 licence.

Hi,

as a so called member of HC whose comments got deleted by so called moderators I´m quite fed up with undemocratic structures on web sites that use the power of people but in return deny their rights to speak up their minds.

My suggestion for working on a HospitaliyGuide-Site is to make it as a wiki like wikipedia where everybody can make a contribution about the quality of a hospitality exchange project. There could even be some votings by which people can have an influence on the number of stars that each hospitality exchange project deserves.

The admins or moderators of this HospitaliyGuide-Site get elected by the people who use (write, read) this wiki-site.

------------------

To put it in a nutshell: I would like to have a more basic discussion about the structure and organisation of this site first and than let people fill the structure in what way they want.

Many greetings,
Torsten

Hi Thorsten,

Sorry for the late answer, only saw this posting just now.

I agree with you. There should be some clear structure behind this page.
I would love to use a Wiki. But Wikis have also good and bad sides. I tried, like one year ago, to make the Hospitality Clubs entry on Wikipedia more fair for all networks, I failed and gave up because I had not enough time. Everything what I tried to make the descriptions more equal got put positive to HC and/or negative to other networks. There is a lot of dislike developed and emotions involved and some people are good in convince people that they are right and doing the right thing..
That was the point when I decided to make my own page, but still, the idea in mind to get it fair and transparent. The different colors of Hospitality Exchange are nice.
Other than on a Wiki, I would like to have a Team of people from all networks, a redaction, who stands behind what on here stands and get published. Information of people, and not only just people who are disappointed of HC, which know about what they are writing. People who look over the edge of the plate and have the future development of Hospitality Exchange in their minds. Also in this way every visitor can make his own picture if he believes in the information given on here or not. Until now, I didn't try not judge in the description of the networks, just the facts. Until now, reproaches against me are fine, the page didn't develop much further. Some ideas, some designs. We didn't have much time. A long time it looked like, unfortunately, the people just take what is given. But it is nice, it doesn’t go under, the people are critical and also complain a bit about the networks. This is a start, but without much change and action.. Now, looking on the latest things happening, it looks like that we move a step further. Nice.

Alex

---
This posting is available under the CC by-sa 2.5 licence.

Hi Alex,

good to hear of you. Luck of time - unfortunately I have the same problem at the moment.
Concerning your trials to change the entry in the Wikipedia I´d like to know if it was mainly a time reason that made you give up or were there other "stones" lying in your way?

many greetings,
Torsten

Hi Thorsten,
Thanks for your reply.
As written in the last posting and the postings therefore. Lack of time in unproductive discussion which go mainly to benefit or damage of one network in particular. The network which can mobilize the most supporters has the most influence. Do you think this results to a fair description of the networks? Let's mobilize all the people here to modify Wikipedia, than we might have an effect.. also a fair description?

Alex

PS: Check http://dmoz.org/Recreation/Travel/Lodging/Hospitality_Clubs/ - Category editor: veit ;)

---
This posting is available under the CC by-sa 2.5 licence.

He Alex,

I´m not that familiar with Wikipedia just thought (or much rather hoped) that it is a democratic system that also has space for minority opinions.
I will check out the Exchange Networks entry in Wikipedia and have a look at the history of the article.

What is this d-moz about anyway? To me it just looks like a normal site with links on it.

Many greetings,
Torsten

» I´m not that familiar with Wikipedia just thought (or much rather hoped)
» that it is a democratic system that also has space for minority opinions.

We gonna move on quite soon..

Greetings from Freiburg,
Alex

---
This posting is available under the CC by-sa 2.5 licence.

» I think the list should be updated. Any suggestions?

last update of the networks: april 2005


..

i think everybody is fine with it as it is..

I just kicked Travelhoo as it seems not to exist anymore.
I added BeWelcome instead.

Please have a look on all the starts and description. What can we state? What can we update? What can we state in the sustainability section? I still feel like making a objective and transparent procedure of rating them. Any ideas?

Best,
Alex

I think it is very difficult to have an objective procedure to rate the networks. At the moment CS is the only network I know that has some kind of statistics. Whether these are objective I don't know of course.

Maybe we could first make a list of what we want to rate. The lay-out of the website ? the sustainabilty ? the number of members ? issues of finances, transparancy, censorship, etc?

it will be quite a challenge to create something representative.

frank

»
» Please have a look on all the starts and description. What can we state?
» What can we update? What can we state in the sustainability section? I
» still feel like making a objective and transparent procedure of rating
» them. Any ideas?
»

Maybe a suggestion :

you could have one page called "features" where you have the different Hosp.ex communities one next to the other (horizontally) and a list of features vertically.

By putting a cross (x) or a radio-button you could then indicate whether that feature is available or not. This is something that can be done in an objective fashion.

Or if there are features that are better in one website than in the other, you could also work with a star system :

1 star = feature is available, but poorly executed
2 stars = feature is available, satisfactory
3 stars = feature is available, excellent

What do you think? The question remains : how will you attribute the stars? will you ask readers of this forum to vote? is this forum representative and not extremely negative towards one community?

As I said, quite a challenge